Jamie Penn is a London-based artist/producer, best known for his solo project Shoplifting. Having followed his work in our scene for a while, I've been fascinated by his use of old-school recording equipment and the warm lofi sound of his music.

Below is our conversation, which took place in the garden area of Brixton Windmill a week ago. Bolded sentences are mine, non-bolded are his.

What got you into making your own music?

I was playing music in band settings when I was 13, back then I just wanted to be in a rock band. Then I was in this midwest emo band when I was 17/18. Like twinkly, math-rocky stuff, when I was in sixth form. We were making originals, but it was as a band, everyone chipped in.

We all split up because everyone went to uni, I did a gap year, I was like "what the hell am I gonna do now?". I wanted to make music but I can't play the drums, and I don't have a drum kit etc. So I just started doing it on the computer. That's how it all started. My first mixtape, a lot of those songs were originally just demos, I was just like "someone else will sing on this". Then I thought "wait a minute, I'll just do it myself". That's how I got into it... Playing guitar... Shout out to Guitar Hero.

When you started putting covers on Youtube, was the plan always to put your original stuff there later on?

That's a great question. (Laughs) I don't really talk about them, not exactly in a shameful way but I just always forget. It was similar to that band thing where I had this creative output and it was just something to do. I posted them on Youtube, and I have this amazing screenshot of having basically no views for two years, and then one video just went boom. In one day it got like a hundred thousand views. It was so lucky because when that happened, my first mixtape was just ready for pre-sale.

I haven't really made any covers since, there's one that we play live. I still like covers as a concept, I think they're cool. But I think original music is so much more rewarding. The covers were just something to do I guess, and I'm pretty proud of them still.

You use a lot of old-school equipment when recording, is that something that you've always been interested in?

(Thinking) probably not... It started with me looking at bands and thinking "what did they use to get that sound?". I'd be reading forums and interviews and they'd mention a piece of equipment, and I'd highlight that instantly. My Bloody Valentine and Duster are the main bands that got me into hardware, like the Tascam 4-track because Duster had one, and the Midiverb 2 because My Bloody Valentine had one.

From there you just go deeper down the rabbit hole. Now it sort of became my sound, I like it because it gives you this edge, anyone can tap away on a laptop. And anyone can tap away on a Tascam obviously, but not many people do. I'm lucky to have all the gear I have.

Were video games part of that influence as well?

Definitely. That was my thing when I was a kid, I probably put in my yearbook that I wanna be a pro-gamer (laughing). Music just kind of replaced video games, slowly. I had all this old gear from back home, my old DS and stuff. I looked at them and thought I could definitely make something with them.

When I was 11, Nintendo was my main thing. As I got older, the big thing was switching to PC. From there you download Premiere Pro and Cubase and just play around with it. I wouldn't have access to those if I didn't have a gaming PC, since you need a lot of processing power for them.

You just released a split EP with I'm Sorry Emil, how did that come about?

We met at a show in Bermondsey, that George put on (DYAF Promotions). I think Gabe from Pindrop was just like, "you should message George if you wanna get into emo shows", and I had never played an emo show before then. So I played this show and these guys were cool.

I always wanted to do a split EP, I like the idea of split releases. It's a nice communal thing. So I asked if they wanted to do one. I produced their half as well, so it led me to do more stuff. It was super DIY, we recorded their half in my uni studio and my half was in my bedroom.

Was it difficult to find the right balance of sounds, between Shoplifting and I'm Sorry Emil?

I think it was, I don't know how they wrote their stuff but I was trying to be as screamo as possible, to make the EP coherent. There's only singing in like one song (on my side). I just wanted something aggressive, it works well with the break beats. Their sound has these synths going on and stuff. But I like this stark contrast of an emo record, and then whatever Shoplifting is.

A big part of the Shoplifting image involves the recording equipment that you use, was it difficult to translate that to a live show?

We play with the DS live, so we managed to incorporate that in. But I kind of think of live as Shoplifting 1080p, and the normal as just Shoplifting. Because to me live is like a higher definition version with real drums, you're not going to see the songs that you can stream, you're going to see this different thing. There's way more energy live.

I'm not sure if it's polarising, but sometimes people go "you should get the tapes out live" and I'm like I don't know how. Maybe I can do a solo set with just me and some tapes and the DS... But I think if you're going to see someone just to see them use a special bit of gear it's like... it can only go so far until you've seen it all. The current live shows let me experiment more, and I like having Will there (the drummer). It adds so much.

How far in advance do you plan the direction you'll go in in terms of the kind of music you'll make?

Most of the songs were written at the start of last year. I always start songs and kind of leave them, then come back later. So it's usually a while in advance, usually a few months. Sometimes things come really quickly, like I did this single earlier this year called "two songs on my DS". For that I pretty much just made the songs and released them because I was like "this works".

I'm trying to get faster at making music, because the longer you hold on to things, you just end up hating it. Or it becomes something that you're not interested in, you feel that you could have done that better. You have to restart everything when you go back to it. It was kind of hard with this split EP, it changed a lot. By the end it was very different. So usually things are pretty planned, but sometimes it can be the same month if it just feels right.

How do you balance your music projects with your life outside of music? Do you have a routine?

I don't have a routine for music, I always end up being like "oh I should make some music today", at least to just open Ableton and chip away at a little project. Then I get stuck and it'll be 11pm, I'll go "just a little bit longer" and then it goes on and on and it'll be 5am. After 11pm I get really carried away, I don't have a good structure, but it works.

Let's say I want to make music and I want to have that old-school, lofi, Shoplifting kind of sound but I can only get one piece of equipment. What do I get?

Tascam Portastudio, a 4-track one. There's so many out there, and I think everyone needs them. They are around 200 quid, maybe a little bit less. I've even seen people with one of those as their pedal. What you can do with a Tascam is just insane, you can literally plug a guitar and vocal mic to it and make the best piece of music you've ever heard.

It sounds good, it's really unique and it changes how you write music since you have to do it in layers. You have to think ahead, since you're like "I only have 2 tracks left" so you have to combine the bass and the drums etc. Everyone should get a Tascam, but don't pay too much for it. Don't get scammed. Even if you don't use it to make music, you can run drums through it and it'll be better than any plugin.

Can we expect any more Shoplifting releases this year?

This year... (thinking). I unfortunately lost my Nintendo DS this summer, and that had a lot of songs on it that weren't backed up. It's September so there's time... I'm really happy to be finished with the split EP so I can focus on some DS music. That's my big interest at the moment. I want to do some grime-dance stuff and also some more acoustic rock, maybe shoegazey stuff.

It's hard to estimate when stuff will be finished, since once you release it, it's like "out". It's permanent, it's like a tattoo. You can't amend it and people will perceive you with that release. It's easy to hold onto things and perfect them.

That's true... I also like music for that reason especially, because it doesn't decay like software. Most software decays over time if you don't maintain it but music just stays.

Yeah, it is a true artefact. Sometimes I'll have a chord progression, and I'll go "this is so good I don't even want to touch it". Like I don't wanna finish this song because it'll ruin it, anything I add will not do what's in my head justice... You have to get over that, since anything is better than nothing. Not to say you should release bad music but sometimes you can be overly critical of yourself.

What's your ratio of unreleased to released?

I'd say it's like 20-to-1. The thing is though I make a lot of bad tunes, but you have to to get it out of your system. Sometimes you think that an idea was good and it wasn't. You spend ages editing something and then you go "ah, this wasn't worth my time". But you have to get there to see it.

Who are your favourite up-and-coming acts? Let's say you have to choose 3.

Hooky, they're these two guys, I think maybe from Philadelphia. They're the best, super lofi, really cute, poppy... Those guys are wicked, every album you can just play and it's really good.

(Thinking) I would say GLOWWORMS, who is playing tonight. GLOWWORMS' stuff is really sick, I haven't heard much like it. It's just this one guy making these crazy, bit-crushed emo songs. For the last one, I'll go with Saint Isaure. It's my homie Sacha, who has nothing released yet but every time I'd walk past his room I'd have to knock on the door and be like "dude this is so good". His stuff is really cool.

Check out Shoplifting's split EP with I'm Sorry Emil on Spotify. To keep up to date with all the things Jamie is working on, check out his Youtube channel and his Instagram.